[Subtitles by danielsangeo] Welcome to Ross’s Game Dungeon. This episode is going up on my birthday, so I figure, since I’m a little
older, I should accept that and prepare myself mentally to be old. So, what do old people do? Well, a lot of them play golf. But, I don’t know if I can
stomach a normal golfing game because that’s really going to
cause an existential crisis for me as to what am I doing with my life, but I like mini-golf so
let’s go with that. This is Zany Golf… or more accurately
Will Harvey’s Zany Golf. Will Harvey is also known as the
designer of Marble Madness. This is a golfing game. Surprise! Now, this is the Amiga version
of the game I’m running. It was originally written for
the Apple II GS, but I had issues being able to emulate
and record that version properly. This version is the next best thing
as the colors and sound quality are pretty comparable to the original. Just be glad I went the extra mile
here and didn’t run the DOS-version. [discordant bleeps] This was the ultimate mini-golf
game for a long time. It has good physics, very exotic courses, and good graphics on every
version except the DOS one. This game is kind of brutal, though, as
you’re given a limited number of strokes then it’s game over. Most of the levels take
some skill to survive, but the fourth hole, the pinball
one, is just a dice toss as to whether you’re going to live or die. There’s a healthy-sized gap in
between the paddles and you don’t control how it
bounces off the bumpers so this stage is pure luck as to
whether you will survive it or not. Now, games on average were
definitely harder back in the ’80s, but this is an example of simple malice. This game is sadistic game design. I can’t think of many games like this where
you get to play through a third of the game, then you essentially get to
play Russian Roulette to see if you get to play more levels or die and start the game
over from the beginning. I guess this was a gimmick to
extend the gameplay hours, because the odds of you having a successful
playthrough are drastically lower this way. I think this is kind of mean-spirited. If you go to an actual putt-putt golf course
and you’re over par for the hole you’re on, the owner of the course isn’t going to
walk out there and shoot you in the head. But they will here. Thanks, Will. Also, the last level is just
designed to kill you and looks like an electric
torture chamber for the Nazis that’s been retrofitted as a
mini-golf course, but it’s the last level and this game has
no special endings, so that’s forgivable. So, if they got rid of or
modified the pinball level, I would say this game is hard, but fair. But, as it stands, this game is
just out for blood instead. That’s unfortunate because golf
is a game you play to unwind anyway, or at least, that should be the idea. I guess, technically, golf is a
sport, but it’s not vigorous; you’re never going to get
in shape playing golf. I mean, sure, Tiger Woods is in shape, but I guarantee you he’s not
in shape BECAUSE he plays golf. Although the laziest of golf games is still burning more calories than sitting on a couch eating
Cheetos, so there is that. Anyway, in my eyes, golf isn’t
supposed to be this high pressure. At least in real golf, you can throw
your club at people if you’re doing poorly. You can’t do that in this game. [music] Yes, go in… go in! No… no no, nononono–! [music] [growls] [music] Now, I announced this had the
largest burger I’ve seen. My first thought of the largest burger
was from Space Quest III and IV, but those aren’t real burgers;
just a burger shop in space. But then some people thought I was talking
about BurgerTime and they’re right. I completely forgot about BurgerTime. Those burgers are large
enough to kill a man, so sorry for not delivering on
that front, guys. I messed up. So, this is the second-largest
game burger I’ve seen. On the plus side, you do get to see a burger
hopping around frantically like it’s alive. If you’re the sort of person who
believes in reincarnation, this seems like kind of a horror scenario, being reincarnated
as a sentient hamburger, and all you can do is flop around. Welcome to Hell. “Do you still see them, Clarice?
Do you still see the hamburgers?” [fanfare] About the music: The music in this game is kind of nuts. Half of it is okay and more-or-less
fits the mood of the game. [organ music] The other half is chaotic and sounds
like it’s trying to torment you. [discordant organ music] Okay… [discordant organ music] Raaaaaargh! [discordant organ music] Listening to some of the music actually
made me feel slightly ill during editing. [eerie organ music] The composer’s name is Doug Fulton. I’m just going to assume he has
bipolar disorder and take pity on him. Again, just be glad this
isn’t the DOS-copy. Nothing like the soothing sound
of shrill PC-speaker music. [high-pitched bleeps] Although it would be fun to call
somebody up on the phone then start playing one of these
tracks to trip them out. It would be better if the person wasn’t very
tech literate so they’d think it’s a bug. [high-pitched bleeps] Now, I like mini-golf, but I
usually find myself wanting more. Specifically, mini-golf kind of makes me wish
the whole world had that same kind of design. Random windmills, tube slides
leading to different places, exotic slopes and sculptures everywhere. It kind of frustrates me that a lot of
modern architecture is incredibly bland. Strip malls, and public schools especially, give me this subtle vibe like
they want me to kill myself. I mean, of course you have
cost and stability concerns, so it’s a hassle to get too exotic, but what the hell is keeping us from adding
a gargoyle or engraved faces to more things? Do you know how many artists would
donate sculptures to buildings for free if we let them? Anyway, mini-golf is like an
oasis of alternate reality that’s made its way into our
dimension so we can play golf in it. If that’s not a worthy cause,
I don’t know what is. [fanfare] Okay, I don’t have much more to
say about golfing. It’s golf. So, let’s talk about the company
that put out this game: Electronic Arts. Here’s the problem with Electronic Arts: Several of the games that they publish are
pretty good, so how could that be a problem? Well, it’s a problem because
Electronic Arts IS an evil company. Now, stay with me here. Some of you are probably saying, “Of course
they’re evil, Ross. Everybody knows that.” Well, see, that’s another problem:
not enough people know that or not enough people know
WHY they’re evil. I did some research on this and
I’ve found some debates online where maybe half the people
were saying EA wasn’t evil. I think those people just didn’t
have enough information. I’m hoping to clear some of that up. See, when I say something is
“evil” and I’m serious about it, I don’t use that term lightly, because a lot of what EA does isn’t
actually evil; it’s just them being assholes. Like changing the gameplay to
make a game less fun, Day One DLCs, adding
microtransactions to a $60 game, those are all what I would
consider “asshole moves” but that’s not “evil” to me. In order to be “evil”, you have
to be causing real harm intentionally: destroying culture, betraying
trust, outright exploitation, firing lots of competent people at the
same time you’re making record profits, stuff like that. So, why is EA evil? Well, the earliest concrete example
I could find was back in ’87 or ’88. During that time, EA signed
a deal with Bethesda to publish a sequel to
their football game since Bethesda had already had
success with their game “Gridiron!”. Well, EA ended up NOT
publishing their sequel but they DID steal their
groundbreaking physics code AND used it in their own game,
“John Madden Football”. So, anyone out there who thinks
EA is not evil, let’s start there. Explain to me how lying to a developer
that’s trusting you to keep your word, then betraying them so you can steal
their work then profit off it tremendously is not being evil. Now, granted, that’s not AS evil
as killing somebody’s family with an ax, but that doesn’t make it NOT evil. And some people might say, “Well, that was a
long time ago. That doesn’t mean anything now.” Well, guess what? “John Madden Football” has been
a SLIGHTLY successful franchise thanks, in part, to the work
EA stole from Bethesda. I believe it’s worth billions today? So, this is an example where them acting
in a predatory and probably illegal manner really paid off and has a big
part of their success to this day. So, being evil has been a really
beneficial thing for Electronic Arts. And they’ve absolutely reaped
the rewards from it. Now, after 1988, the next really concrete
example I could find of EA being evil is the “EA Spouse” testimony
but that was in 2004. If you don’t know about that, I
may cover it in another video later on, but it’s basically an account of
how badly they’ve exploited workers and contributed to making that
an industry standard. So, that’s a gap of about 16 years and I somehow have trouble believing they
were perfect angels during that entire time. But everything I’ve found in
between then has been iffier. I have found Richard Garriott
calling the founder of EA the Antichrist, but hey, that’s not proof in itself. I also found mention of EA filing
an intentionally frivolous lawsuit against the game company Origin Systems. This was a deliberate tactic to
ruin them financially with legal fees since EA had deeper pockets than Origin. The founder of EA was quoted as
saying it was just a business tactic. So, you can just say that’s just
business competition, but when you KNOW a lawsuit is frivolous
and you’re using your financial advantage to ruin someone else, that still
strikes me as kind of evil. Also, I know EA bought the game companies
Bullfrog Productions and Westwood Studios, proceeded to mismanage them, and as
a result, both of them were killed by 2004. Now that is them forcing their will on
the developers, making poor decisions, and then ruining their careers as a result. With the exception of
at least Don Mattrick, who it appears intentionally harmed
internal companies for his own gain, I’m willing to give them
the benefit of the doubt and say that’s more an issue of them being
assholes where the end-results were evil but that probably wasn’t their
intent in those particular cases. Anyway, that’s all I could find
on them being evil prior to 2004. I don’t want to go past 2003 right now because there’s just too much
evil in EA to fit it all in one episode. But, hey, I’m not a historian. If you have more details on other
outright acts of evil by Electronic Arts, go ahead and contact me. It would be nice to
chronicle how EA has been evil over the years. But, try to find items you can really
make an argument as being evil. Not just them releasing a bad
DLC or charging a high price. I don’t think that counts. Now, what’s the point of this? Well, I just want to remind people that
Electronic Arts really IS an evil company that has done things to harm
people and is still doing them. I feel like a lot of problems today
stem from not enough people being willing to call things as “evil” and
“wrong”, so hey, this is just a refresher. I’m not even saying you
should boycott EA Games because I’m cynical and think
that will make NO DAMNED DIFFERENCE. Just play the games you want to but be
aware of where they’re coming from. Eric Schmidt, the executive chairman
of Google, has said before that Google’s slogan of “Don’t be evil”
is quote, “the stupidest rule ever” because he felt like it
can’t be clearly defined. Well, not to toot my own horn, but I think I
have a pretty good grasp on what’s evil or not. Especially compared to many
corporate executives who apparently find basic morality
to be a pretty vague concept. And I don’t have any trouble making
judgment calls on that sort of thing. So, if any executives at EA, Google,
or any other company for that matter, are watching this video, I am happy to
offer my services as an Ethics Adviser. I can straighten you out one way or the other! Well, that’s about it. Zany Golf is mostly a good game
but it is going to kill you. And EA is an evil company that
sometimes puts out good games. Also, Will Harvey looks
friendly in pictures, but I think he must have a dark side to him. If you’re interested in this game, I also
recommend checking out “Wonderputt”. It’s a free web game that I think
it has almost everything Zany Golf does, but with less psychological torture. So, uh, happy birthday to me! [jaunty music] Okay… Concentrate… RRROOOOOOAAAAAAAAA–

Tagged : # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #

Dennis Veasley

100 thoughts on “Ross’s Game Dungeon: Zany Golf”

  1. Lol I see why you say the game is sadistically hard. To put it plainly, you really suck at playing it. My brother and I played this as young kids and rarely did as badly as you did. How do you manage to aim so badly when it even gives you a dotted line to indicate where you're aiming?

  2. Indeed, a lot more folk ought to be in on EA's business shenanigans. Many if most people will have conflicting views of EA. Especially those who grew up playing their games in the 90s, such as I. Back then, I had no idea about their methods and what they got up to. All I knew of them was the games they published. And I generally rather liked those games, they were good games, mostly due to them buying up successful studios. Even after Westwood was shut down and later learning about the demise of Bullfrog and adjusting my opinion of EA, I've still enjoyed many of their publications since. C&C 3, for instance, was a great game and a solid sequel to Tiberian Sun. It's been a relatively recent thing that they, like all other big companies, have become ever worse and taken to releasing unfinished, unpolished and/or unoriginal/re-hashed games with outrageous DLC marketing.

    If you look at The Sims series, it offers you a good perspective on a vast timeline of EA's history up until today. It's an ever worsening cycle of releasing a base game, churning out as many expansions as possible, then finally releasing a sequel's base game that has about the same functionality as the previous base game and little more content. Then, again, churning out as many expansions as possible. The latest title is easily the worst and the clearest indicator of the worsening of the cycle. An utterly cut-down and minimized base game, more blank slated than any previous one and so readied for phase of endless expansions. I say expansions, not sure if they still call them that, but they're much more content DLC than fully fledged expansions.
    So, while they are, in their own sub-genre, good games, they have decidedly become that much worse in newer titles. So it was with 3 and so it is now more than ever with 4. And yet, the worst of it all is the pricing. For instance, check out The Sims 3: http://store.steampowered.com/app/47890 A nearly 8 years old base game and still going for a whopping 40€. The 'Bundle' is at 74€. If you look above it, you might find it strange for a second that the base game plus only one expansion is going for more: 75€. But that one's not part of the Bundle. As isn't one other. Nor does it include any of the minor DLC. You look at the pricing for the individual expansions and there's even a couple of them going for as much as the base game itself! They are sure as Hell not standalone. And the content they introduce is an iota compared to the vanilla's.
    Simply put, they do it because they can. Only, all the more unashamedly than most companies. This series has no direct competition. At the same time, similarly to MMOs, it appeals to a category of otherwise non-gamers. Girls, mainly. After all, it is possibly the apex of the digital age's version of "playing with dolls." I'm not invested in this series like I am in C&C, but it does show better than any other they own the rights to how EA's marketing has been throughout a long period of time.

  3. See, I'm also cynical in that I don't believe even dissolving EA will put a dent in evil practices, since there's always someone new to take up the torch and continue the damage.

    However, unlike Ross, who seems to view the problem from perspective of someone killing endless hordes of zombies, where one will always step in to take the place of the fallen, I view it in terms of fighting a hydra.

    For every head you cut off, at least one will come back. But at the end of the day, there is in fact, only one monster you're fighting, and eventually you'll either bleed the thing into unconsciousness for a while, or spawn enough heads to reach a critical mass that has them constantly getting in each other's way so you can escape. There is a way for a temporary reprieve and persistence will be rewarded in some way.

  4. Ea adopted 252 orphans for their 20'th year anniversary… then proceeded to sacrifice them to their devil gods. NOT. their not THAT evil, just.. greedy and lacking very seriously in morality. like most companies, just in overdrive.

  5. This game looks awesome and I loved Marble Madness, but that pinball level makes me not even want to bother.

  6. EA has a track record of buying out a lot of smaller game companies and screwing them over, kind of like how Disney does movies and cartoons.

  7. 8:55 fun fact that's what Miyamoto with Mario 64 right? he took the camera system from the canceled star fox game and put it in Mario 64. I mean maybe not as bad but still.

  8. I agree so much to the rant on modern architecture…

    Some suburban sectors outright piss me off, if it doesn't freak me out, with rows and rows and rows of nearly IDENTICAL houses.

  9. EA purchased Black Box to own their office, which was in a convenient downtown location, threw them out into a different building, and then put them on a death march.

  10. I have seen evidence of non-evil people at the higher levels of EA, but taking history into account, I usually assume that they're in a more long-game evil scheme.

  11. During the warhammer only days, EA had accidentally very very overcharged for subscriptions. No actually evidence of this, but I heard that someone was overcharged so much that one of the people effected had their electricity cut since EA didnt act on it quick enough and in the same home was someone on life support and they died. Just a rumour, the overcharging thing did happen though.

  12. I dunno about the EA Spouse thing, but when I applied to work there, they directly told me that the employment opportunity only existed as make-work for HR and didn't actually exist. I don't know if this is a common practice, but it's pretty harsh on the unemployed.

  13. Starting to feel like this series is turning into him ranting about stuff related to games…

    Which I'm ok with…youtube already does have jontron…

    Damn I miss that guy

  14. I thought that golfing isn't that strenuous an activity, then I walked an 18 hole round on the tail end of summer, carrying my own clubs. I changed my mind about that notion around hole 10.

  15. Holy shit, my youtube just refreshed on this video and everything looks different. It's awful. XD The video is great, though.

  16. Just to clarify. EA is the reason why we aren't getting an hd remaster of dune 2000. Thanks ea! Thanks for killing fun!

  17. I recall first watching this episode whilst working my first night shift, essentially leaving me alone in the entire 3 story office building for a good 7 hours or so, and man that music alone stirred up something awful lol

  18. wow, an EA published game back in the 80s, that was before EA was a piece of shit company, i take that back that madden move tells me EA has been an evil piece of shit company since day 1

  19. "Micro transactions on a $60 game" would describe the new Battlefront 2 quite well, which they probably stole from Pandemic who they practically kidnapped and murdered shortly after kidnapping.

  20. EA has spread their evil to all the other AAA publishers. It’s now completely impossible for a major game to come out in a functional state and without microtransactions sucking money out of the wallets of inept parents and people with poor impulse control. Not to mention every time an indie developer gets successful, those corporate scumlords buy them out and ruin everything. Corporate executives must come from hell, there’s no other explanation.

  21. Would you have been able to straighten google out over that memo issue they had recently? Seems like a pretty ingrained issue they have going on over there at this point. Like yeah the memo was bad but seeing the lawsuit there are a lot of issues that got me thinking "oh yeah, no wonder that guy feels marginalized, even if he does have some weird stereotypes about women he supports with ages old "evidence" from one of the most difficult sciences to argue is in any way accurate. He uses bogus arguments but you can imagine his difficulty with seeing the other side when from his perspective the "other side" is full of absolute lunatics.

    I mean god damn the internet just blows so much out of proportion and it's bleeding into the real world and affecting news and people's jobs and everything. There are some benefits to having a more connected society but for some reason it seems to be leading to a lot of regression. I'm usually pretty optimistic that people will eventually get smarter but I can really see how difficult it is to not be cynical about it all. There's a good point to be made about the self-approving bubble people get themselves into with the social media that's out there. Hopefully people will get more exposure to the "opposing side" and realize there's a lot we can all come to some level of agreement on. A lot of issues are made out to be black and white when they're really not and the solution is obvious and simple if you look at the research behind what works and what doesn't.

    If we want to solve some of the issues we face people need to put aside ideological differences and look at an issue from more than two angles. Pro-choice vs. pro-life wouldn't be such a big issue if people were better educated on sex and birth control. There would be less abortions if there was better access to birth control and family planning assistance. Of course then you get those fringe elements that think every egg and sperm are sacred but you can't please everyone. Those are the sort of people that need birth control.

  22. I just want you to know that ever since me and my girlfriends first date where I made a off handed remark about your EA rant and she asked to see the episode, it has become an annual celebration for us to watch another episode. A part of me saying this is to just get the story of my chest but I think the real take away is please atleast make a new game dungeon every year.

  23. Mark Cerny is the one who designed Marble Madness. He went on to do a lot in the industry, including design the ps4. Will Harvey did the commodore 64 port of Marble Madness however.

  24. Wasn't there some deal where EA blackmailed Sega after cracking one of their systems so they can sell their own mass of crappy unlicensed games?

  25. Game Dungeon has become my favourite show on youtube. Can't have enough of it. Commentary and delivery is hilarious.

  26. Watching this again in 2018, and shuddered at the line "Adding Micro-Transactions to a 60$ game". I'm certain Ross predicted the future in this due to the 2017 Battlefront 2. I mean, EA wasn't the first to do it, but I think it was the first to put it in a 60$ game. The others that do this either made the games free later and/or kept it to a max of 40$. Still pretty bullshit, but EA's was BULLSHIT. Especially with how they handled it.

  27. I dunno Ross, the mass boycott of that one Star Wars game made EA actually not dick over consumers with lootboxes.

    That said, are lootboxes evil? (Personally, I'd say yes, since they are willing to target children)

  28. I recently heard that Google dropped the "Don't be Evil" motto.
    I thought of this video and laughed.
    It's was just to hard for them… anyway they can censor Chinese search terms now to distort history at the authoritarian Chinese Governments request. Good for them, a bigger market and more money.

  29. Google is evil however, and he's right. It's a vague concept. What's evil? Whatever the people in charge say is evil.

  30. I really like the tangents you're going on in this series. Always worth my time. Thank you, Ross!
    PS: Greetings from Poland!

  31. You are talking about EA in the 80s, the guy on this video is as dumb and mean spritied as Disney firing that Director for his old tweets.

    This guy puts EA ceo like some cartoon villains, they didn't killed any game, they just setup supporting their products and they had to shut them off.

    Also, you are not being cynical, cynical its to not care, you care too much to even research about it.

  32. 13:52 Why has no one ever combined MINI GOLF with WORMS 3D? Golf + Scorched Earth with a little bit of Soviet "Deep Operation" thrown in the mix. A WW2 putt-putt game. With anti-tank guns shooting at your balls.

  33. Wow, the days when you had to spend several minutes citing examples of how EA is very much evil and you shouldn't do business with them because some people apparently didn't know. Seems like the only thing that's changed this past half-decade is that now, even though everybody knows that EA is evil and everybody is aboard the #FuckEA bandwagon, they still keep buying and defending that sweet [Insert your disease-ridden EA franchise of choice here].

  34. EA currently holds a monopoly on Madden intellectual property stuff, basically forcing all other football games out of the market since they can't hope to compete with the EA's official versions. They grabbed the monopoly solely due to Sega managing to start actually competing with them in sports titles and they couldn't have THAT.

  35. Richard Garriott is absolutely correct. EA killed Ultima, one of the longest-running and most influential RPG series around, by mismanaging, slashing the budget, and rushing out unfinished games.

  36. Pretty sure you can add to EA's evil list something along the lines of "holding the Wasteland IP hostage by repeatedly rebooting the sequel project and cancelling it to renew their copyright" or something to that extent…

  37. Micro transactions are inherently evil, as they're designed to take advantage of those who suffer from Impulse-Control Disorder (ICD). Think about it this way, if you buy a full price retail game (without DLC), once you've paid the initial fee, there's nothing else to buy for that game, thus not urge to spend more, whereas, if you download a barely enjoyable free game with micro-transactions that "make the game better", then considering there's no limit to how much money you can spend in game (other than bank balance), some people will keep spending more and more because due to issues with addiction. So in most cases, these addicts spends thousands of dollars on a game that's barely worth two. A recent report states that on average 0.15% of a mobile games user-base provide 50% of the profits, which ever way you work it out, that's pretty fucked up.

    tl;dr: Watch the South Park episode "Freemium isn't Free".

  38. Evil is subjective and screwing over customers with excessive microtransactions as well as buying and destroying studios. They ruin games and milk customers. I consider all that evil

  39. Ross, I just want to say thank you for the Google mention. I hate how people have "pet companies" and they assume that companies like Google AREN'T evil just because they have a good public image.

  40. EA also ripped money from double fine when they teamed to make: brütal legend.
    Speaking of EA isn't the only evil company
    Recently: Activision and blizzard entertainment fired hundreds of employees so they didn't need to pay them because they want more money

  41. Frivolous lawsuits and intentionally buying and killing rival companies is obviously evil

    Edit: in fact, using the legal system to hurt people is, by definition, evil. The legal system is to get justice only, not gain profits, not kill competition, etc.

  42. dude, you have no idea about how much work golf is. I took it in High School and damn it was rough. (it didn't help that the average temp during the day was 100 degrees F so theirs that as well)

  43. The great thing I love not paying EA and stealing their games. I mean it was ok for them to steal so it is ok for me as well 😀

  44. EA killed Earth and Beyond, which wasn't the best game but heck MMO in Scifi settings are rare so you take what you get.

  45. Also, with EA's Madden series, keep in mind that they've had an exclusive license to use NFL player names and teams. This has essentially removed all competitors from the market.

  46. Let's be honest: The only reason EA HASN'T murdered your family with an axe is because there's no profit in it.

    Like, corporations do shitty things for profit all the time, but EA's one of those companies that, if they could find a way to turn a profit by kidnapping children, torturing them to death over the course of years and then grinding their corpses into Soylent Green snack food to sell to their grieving parents, they would do it without the slightest bit of moral consideration.

  47. EA also murders game franchises in a way you may not think, when I say murder a franchise I mean you release a game that is at the peak of gameplay but in terms of meat, there is nothing thus as a result people as for me, so you give a little more yet not enough, then you say nothing, oh when STar wars battlefront was released EA changed their refund method to a more tedious method, if that isnt evil I am not sure what is

  48. Man, the EA ripping into in this video aged like fine wine.

    Just took 6 years for the public at large to realize how evil EA is.

  49. Nowadays EA is psychologically manipulating people who may or may not be children or have extreme gambling addictions into spending thousands of dollars on their games that also have $60 price tags. Then they turn around and say it’s not predatory or manipulative.

  50. Will Harvey thats a name I recognize. Will Harvey's The Immortal. That game is a torment. Both soundtracks have good hits tho.

  51. fun fact: no matter how much zany shit i enconter trying out zany shit games…golf has always been my favourite to fall back on. especially neo geo basic golf. i dont even know how it is called. just basic golf chills me the fuck out

  52. Oh yeah, as another dickish move we can attribute to Will Harvey, there's a section in the NES port of The Immortal where you can meet the original programmers. Tell them you have coffee when you don't and….. he'll set you on fire. One of the most obscure deaths in a game that's already crawling with death after death after death.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *